#GamerGate Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Brandon, Oct 18, 2015.

  1. Largo

    Largo Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,800
  2. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144
    I'm making an exception to my pro-hentai/pro-fanservice views: I want Ladykiller in a Bind to be banned/censored from Steam. Even if the game itself has nothing wrong with it, if its presence on Steam emboldens SJWs/fujoshis who continue to threaten otaku-oriented fanservce in videogames, I wouldn't have anything to gain from tolerating it.
     
  3. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    Fuck off and die, Anita.
     
  4. Musou Tensei

    Musou Tensei Senior Member

    Messages:
    298
    That'd go against artistic freedom, which would be a crime punished by cultural anal enrichment in my totalitarian state, while having to play through the game, twice.
     
  5. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144
    It certainly wouldn't be in mine. It'd be considered an act of heroism, distinguished with the highest honors and rewarded with free copies of the DLsite versions of the Nekopara games.

    The only way these sex-negative SJWs will ever realize just how damaging their pro-censorship views are is to have the very titles they hold dear censored in return. Us male-oriented fanservice otaku have been censored for far too long--Let them be on the receiving end for once.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  6. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    Yeah cause that's how you correct a problem. Do what they do! That won't justify and reenforce their victimhood narrative at all!
     
  7. 3rdStrike_Ebi

    3rdStrike_Ebi Senior Member

    Messages:
    636
    I'll have to second this. If you have to resort to censorship for things you don't like, it means either your argument sucks, or you suck at defending it.
     
  8. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    I will add a third possibility to it: Or you're a shitty trash tier human being.
     
  9. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144

    Actually, I'd say these statements go hand in hand.

    SJWs love to claim victimhood, but do you know how such claims came about? That's because such claims are rooted in the fact that women actually were victimized in past times.

    Claims of being victims of things like discrimination and sexual violence are rooted in the fact that many women were victims of it in one time or another decades ago--It's just that times have changed and such instances of legitimate victimization have become far less frequent. The SJWs/sex-negative feminists have little to argue for, so they harp on even the smallest of perceived injustices to keep their narrative alive.

    Yes, censorship of the titles they love will reinforce their "victimhood" narrative. But not in the way you might think. For all the "victimhood" that SJWs love to claim, there's one thing that they never claim to be "victims" of: Censorship

    How many games, movies, music, anime, manga, and VNs can you count being censored for having sexual content or content that caters to the "male gaze"? More than I can name off the top of my head.

    How many games, movies, music, anime, manga, and VNs can you count being censored for catering to a sex-negative, radfem ideology?

    Absoutely none.


    You see? How could you possibly convince them that censorship is wrong if nothing they like gets censored at all?

    We've always taken an indiscriminate anti-censorship stance for fear of inducing what we call a "slippery slope"--The idea that censoring content we don't like will inevitably lead to censorship of something we do like. The problem is that we preach the fear of a "slippery slope" among ourselves, but the idea has never dawned on the SJW community.

    We've had our titles censored all the time, so what do we do? We preach to ourselves to fear the "slippery slope". On the other hand, they continue to preach censorship of our titles without even considering for a second that their ideas may backfire and negatively affect their titles.

    This means only one thing--Our understanding of what we'd call a "slippery slope" in regards to censorship has a serious flaw: We failed to realize that nobody fears a "slippery slope" without being victims of censorship first.

    If external forces seek to censor our titles they don't like, they will never understand, much less acknowledge the existence of a "slippery slope" unless something they do like gets subject to censorship.

    Sure, I agree with the notion that if you have to resort to censorship for things you don't like, it either means your argument sucks, or you suck at defending it. But guess what? The SJWs have been doing this all the time with no negative repercussions to them.

    On the other hand, we've been refraining from resorting to censorship of things we don't like, only to have our beloved titles censored nonstop.

    How can they possibly know about a "slippery slope" if it never happens to their titles?

    If a title of theirs does get censored, it will cause a rift in the SJW community. They'll have the same sex-negative rules applied onto them, and many of them will cry foul. Many of them will inevitably claim to take an "anti-censorship" stance and spin a narrative of being "victims" of censorship.

    Not all of them are mindless drones, however. Some of them will come to realize that the ideas behind preaching against titles designed to attract the "male gaze" were the very reason why the title they enjoy had been subject to censorship, and thus abstain or even preach against further anti-porn/fanservice bantering towards our video games/media.

    To make this happen, we need to overcome our own fear of inducing a "slippery slope", and make it a reality unto them.

    Preaching for censoring their beloved titles is not "reactionary", it's retaliatory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  10. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    Cool grand standing, bro.
    But you don't fool me. An asshole advocating for censorship will never be anything more than an asshole advocating for censorship, and all mutually assured destruction does is ensure that everyone loses.
    And you are a complete retard if you believe they think it's not censorship. They know it's censorship. And they want censorship, they just want to be the ones to do it.
    You can't protect artistic freedom by actively attacking their works. You protect it by inviting them to the table, and when they refuse, showing the world how they are insane authoritarians.
    They defeat themselves when actively engaged. Going any further is just doing the same shit they do, and that just makes you an SJW.
    Fuck off.
     
  11. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144
    I never denied being an asshole advocating for censorship. Key difference is that I'm an asshole advocating for censorship of them.

    A MAD policy against SJWs and anyone else who threatens depictions of sex or violence in games would be a wonderful thing. The whole underlying principle behind mutually assured destruction is that of deterrence. "Censor the things we like, and we'll censor the things you like"--A complete stalemate resulting in neither side censoring each other should be the ultimate goal. What better policy is there to make that happen than that of reciprocal deterrence?

    After all, why should I care about whether everyone loses if I don't win either way?

    Of course they just want to be the ones to do it. That's why you have to show them that we're just as capable of doing so. They need to know that if they start censoring, then the other side will censor them back. We just need to show them that we're capable of doing it. The only reason why they continue to do so is because we're not willing to fight back.

    You can certainly protect our artistic freedom by doing so, that's for sure. So how did inviting them to the table and "showing the world" how insane they are go? They're not convinced that our interests are worth protecting, and they've spun the media to prevent us from showing the world how insane they are. What do we have to lose by ensuring that their titles suffer the same crap that we've had to deal with?

    Free speech isn't worth jack shit if our speech isn't part of the equation.

    I never really saw myself as different from being an authoritarian SJW myself. The only thing is that seperates me from them is that I actually like games that cater to the so-called "male gaze".

    What you idealistic dimwits don't seem to realize is that these sorts of people have been constantly going after "male-oriented" depictions of sexuality in games and media for years. You think this is the first time it's ever happened to us?

    No. It's happened not only with SJWs, but with bible thumpers, soccer moms, and 80's-era feminists. It's probably going to happen with the alt-rightists in the future. In the meantime you guys keep trying to "make peace" with these guys, we've had counteless beloved titles of our own censored with absolutely nothing of theirs affected. How many more of our titles have to go into the meat grinder until we realize that there's something seriously wrong with our current masochistic approach of dealing with these assholes?

    Do you really believe that they'll give two fucks about what any of us enjoy if it doesn't affect anything they enjoy?

    You're delusional if you think so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  12. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    And that's where you're wrong again.
    You're god damn right we've been dealing with this shit since the 80's. But where are those people now? The "D&D is satanic" crowd are viewed by the mass public as crazy. Jack Thompson got disbarred and promptly disappeared. And there wasn't a single thing any of us had to do other than continue being cool cats. And I don't know if you've checked with audiences yet, but nobody believes what comes out of MSM anymore. So while MSNBC is saying gamers are evil bastards, their ratings are dropping.
    Games that refused to censor such as DOAX3, sold fantastically while games like Fire Emblem are constantly being shit on. Fun fact, every time a company capitulates, another market slot opens.
    And your response to all that is to go all taliban? No. Fuck you. Extremist, "well if they're doing it, why shouldn't we" moronic fucks like you are the reason GG became untenable. You refuse to have standards. Standards that have proven to prevail time and again. You call out others when they censor, but then demand your own censorship. That isn't playing by their rules, it's hypocrisy.
    So you can fuck off, Ian Miles Cheong.
     
  13. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144
    You really think we've progressed all that far? Think again. The "D&D is satanic" crowd may be viewed as crazy now, but back then? D&D books got censored by their writers in response to accusations of promoting satanism.

    Fucktards like Jack Thompson may have gotten disbarred, but his "replacement" Anita Sarkeesian is well-recognized by feminists, game critics, and academics nowadays.

    You fucking call this "progress"? Don't make me laugh.

    That's what you like to convince yourself. You're delusional if you think the MSM is going away anytime soon under existing circumstances. Guess what most Americans go to for their daily dose of socio-political-economic bullshit, rife with clickbait, right-wing/left-wing propaganda, unethical reporting, endless advertising, and a boatload of conspiracy theories? The mainstream news.

    But wait... What if you're correct to a certain extent? What if many people are starting to ditch MSM and look for something else instead? They look for alternative media sites, which provide even more of the same dose of socio-political-economic bullshit, rife with clickbait, right-wing/left-wing propaganda, unethical reporting, endless advertising, and a boatload of conspiracy theories.

    You really think non-MSM sites such as the likes of Infowars or even Breitbart would bother step up to the plate and defend our beloved "underaged pantyshot simulators"? Think again.

    Just because most Americans are ditching MSMs does not mean they're getting exposed to any less bullshit than before. It's just bullshit that you happen to agree with.

    Every time a company capitulates, another market slot opens? Bull-fucking-shit.

    Even though DOAX3 sold good numbers in places like Play Asia, TK still refuses to give it a localized release.

    NISA still insists on censoring fanservice games like Mugen Souls and Criminal Girls. Atlus censored Dungeon Travelers 2.

    Idea Factory still thinks twice about releasing "certain" titles, such as the Moero series.

    Hell, even XSEED's still afraid of putting ages in the character profiles of their Senran Kagura games.

    That's not even including the eroge market. Steam still disallows sexually explicit/pornograpic content. Unless it's Ladykiller in a Bind, of course.

    Sekai Project still time and time releases censored games without an 18+ version released by Denpasoft.

    JAST USA still saw fit to censor Shiny Days and Starless.

    And don't even get me started on fucking Nutaku and their nonstop censorship of their free-to-play titles.

    To top it all off, Japanese eroge devs like Minori still block foreign IPs after their impression of the western market got tarnished due to the Rapelay scandal of 2009.

    Where's the "other" market slot to open up for these losses? My thoughts exactly.

    And that's just regarding all the titles we've actually heard of. Who knows how many other fanservice titles we've missed out on thanks to the companies' fear of provoking a backlash in the west?

    For every uncut release we see of titles with controversial content like Gal Gun: Double Peace (sans the Aussies and now the New Zealanders, of course), we see at least 5 other titles with controversial content censored or passed over due to stupid excuses that the SJWs would more than agree with.

    Despite all these years of "progress", weeb games with fanservice still haven't reached the same level of acceptance and quantity of uncut releases in the west as anime DVDs or manga books, much less 18+ games. With that in mind, why in the fuck should we make an exception for titles that cater to SJW/fujoshi bitches?

    My response to all this is to go Taliban? No, no, no, no, no. You've got it all wrong.

    Going ISIS is more like it. Or going "Outer Hea/v/en" if you prefer a less Islam-related alternative.

    GG became untenable because we let in a bunch of alt-right outsiders who aren't interested in protecting the videogames we enjoy from the SJW menace. They'd rather be preoccupied with fighting SJWs in the realm of "greater politics". They'd much rather suck Trump's dick at every corner instead of focusing on preventing our games from being censored, or getting SJWs and their media sympathizers to leave gamers alone.

    Now that GG has a bunch of people who'd rather dance to the tune of /pol/ or r/the_donald instead of actually protecting our videogames, the only way we can get through to the SJWs is to send them a message that they can't ignore or brush aside--By having their beloved titles censored because it caters to them.

    Nobody wins a war by following a standard that prevents them from taking down the opposition.

    You call what I'm saying hypocrisy? Well guess what? You're right. Hypocrisy exists because it works. It's a natural human response when one perceives a threat that can't be dealt with within the confines of his own self-imposed morality.

    Times change, situations change, and so do the "morals" along with it. No moral code is able to anticipate every possible situation, and no single moral principle can apply to every possible situation. They're both meant to be broken/modified when the time is right. No human stays alive on this planet without ever acting against what he perceives to be morally correct at some point in time or another.

    Consequently, no movement or cause survives without its members getting their hands dirty against their opposition to at least some extent at some point in time or another. Anyone attempting to prevent that is indistinguishable from those who want to stop the movement altogether.

    I have no ideals to preach. I care too much about my own beloved videogames to be bothered to worry about what they like.


    Don't put me on the same level as Ian, dude. At least I don't think Criminal Girls deserved to get censored.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  14. 3rdStrike_Ebi

    3rdStrike_Ebi Senior Member

    Messages:
    636
    The Mary Sue says otherwise. I've also seen countless examples of SJWs saying their free speech is infringed upon whenever they're denied the chance to censor someone else. And I do mean countless.

    If you agree, then why do you think it's then okay to do the same as them? If no-one calls out their bad arguments, who do you believe should, and how? Religion, for example, was not discredited and seen as a joke by censoring it - it was obliterated by science and people on the Internet. In fact, censoring Christianity in Rome back in the day just ended up making it stronger in the end. Trust me, the last thing you want to do is validate their victim complex by giving them a bone.

    I reject your premise. You have no guarantee of anti-SJW people stopping the censorship of SJW games if they decide to go to the same extreme as you. You also can't guarantee that SJWs will stop using the tactics they've perfected over years of practice just because it happens to them. You can't win against them that way, because they won't to admit to themselves that what they're doing is shitty.

    Seconded. When I was a feminist, though I didn't call it censorship, the fact is I believed more of X needed to be reduced in favour of Y. That was the only way things would go my way back then.

    Not gonna happen, I'll tell you this right now. If it worked, then we would just tell all criminals in the world, "If you kill people, we'll kill you", and that would be the end of it. The fact that crime still happens suggests otherwise, and it's the same thing here. If you want to stop them censoring shit, you need to attack the root of the problem: their beliefs. Defeat the ideology, and you defeat the cause.

    Ask the actual racists in the world and see what they think. Or just ask any Christian that has an Internet connection.

    Free speech isn't worth anything to anyone if no-one on either faction defends it.

    Let's make something clear here. I can't speak for everyone else, but I do not intend to "make peace" with SJWs. I want them to fuck off as much as everyone else. But I do not, and will not, resort to authoritarianism to achieve that end. SJWs refuse to learn from history, and I don't think people who pride themselves on intellectualism should do the same thing.

    "...Except for censorship against people I don't like."
     
  15. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    Yeah, all of that is a fat load of no. You ARE just like Ian; an opportunistic fascist.
    You want the power to censor "SJW" games, but just like your SJW pals, definitions are fickle things, and you'll go after whatever the fuck you want anyway.
    So fuck you and your communist bull shit. I will fight for everyone's speech. It's not a switch that can be turned on and off at will. You will never stop with "censoring sjw games until they get it". You and those like you never do.
    Take your fascist rhetoric and shove it up your ass.
     
  16. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144

    Oh yeah, I remember hearing about the Steven Universe episode getting censored. But you know why SJWs haven't learned anything from it yet? It's because such censorship hasn't been normalized yet. SU's censorship isn't the norm--It's the exception.

    We only see something wrong with the SJWs' pro-censorship ways because censorship of sex and violence has been deemed acceptable to many people, leaving us in the minority. As a result of being in the minority, we realize that there is something systematically wrong with the way we approach content in our media.

    How the fuck are SJWs to be expected to notice anything with the way we approach content in our media if censorship of their beloved content isn't considered "normal"?


    I may agree with the notion that it's idiotic, but I promote doing the same unto them anyways because I have recognized that in spite of my personal feelings/opinions/desires, we live in a harsh, post-truth society that necessitates action that we may consider to be "unthinkable" in order to survive.

    I didn't start out by hating the titles they like and wanting to censor them from the very beginning--The continued censorship of my beloved titles by these SJW fucktards was the thing that eroded my confidence in the prevelanence and even existence of "free speech".

    You can thank the Rapelay Scandal of '09 for that. That shit set the weeb market back by YEARS.

    Believe me, I'm just as in it for revenge as I'm in it out of concern about these assholes affecting my video games market.

    Funny you should mention religion. If religion has been "obliterated" so to speak, why do Americans have an unusually higher rate of followers compared to the rest of the developed world? If religion has been undermined by "science" and "people on the internet", why the hell do we currently have Islamic fanatics wreaking havoc in the Middle East?

    That's because preaching "the truth" has no effect on those not interested in listening to others, that's why.

    You really don't know religion, do you? You really think Christianity got powerful just because some dude with long hair got nailed to a cross? It got powerful because the Roman Empire fell, leaving its people at the mercy of hundreds of thousands of invading barbarian tribes.

    After Rome fell, the emerging feudal institutions used Christianity to instill obedience in exchange for safety and the promise of a happier afterlife to peasants who face the prospect of living a short, dismal life. That's how Christianity got so powerful.

    There is nothing on this planet that is more rooted in fear, repression, and bloodshed as religion. If you're trying to preach against authoritarianism, you really should know better than to use something that's been used as a justification for authoritarianism for thousands of years.

    With that in mind, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to form a religion based on videogames.

    [​IMG]

    /v/idya Ackbar, motherfuckers.



    Guess what? There's no precedent that any of this will happen if SJWs' titles did get censored. The concept of censoring SJW games because they appeal to SJWs is something that hardly even exists as of now. How in the hell are you to assume that it wouldn't work if it never happened before?

    You can certainly win against them that way, because at the very least, you'll distract them from going after our games.

    At the very most, they'll push for anti-censorship of sexual content in platforms like Steam to get their titles through, and guess what will happen? Steam will more than likely also let "male-oriented" games through the cracks alongside the SJW-centric games should they lax their policies.

    Sounds like a win-win if you ask me.


    I'm inclined to think the same. The more SJW-centered games developers put out, the less "male-oriented" fanservice titles we'll get.

    I think about this in two ways:

    One, if the market for SJWs in the videogames industry grows, more developers will start to divert from releasing "male-oriented" fanservice titles to releasing titles that appeal more to them. This is the best case scenario.

    Two, if the market for SJWs in the videogames industry grows, more developers will want to "tailor" (I.E.--Butcher) localizations of "male-oriented" Japanese fanservice games in an attempt to appeal to the new market for SJWs. Same thing goes for original "male-oriented" titles that were initially intended to have sexually explicit content in it, but the devs were forced to cut out content due to a potential backlash from the emerging market for SJWs. This is the worst case scenario.

    I have no interest in having either scenario becoming a reality, especially the second one. That's why I'd rather minimize the number of SJW/fujoshi-centric "games" in order to maximize the number of uncut, male-oriented fanservice games, especially the Japanese kind.


    No thanks. Nobody can change anyone's beliefs, short of doing some sort of mythical, invasive brainwashing. The most you can do is prevent them from getting the idea that their expressing their beliefs is acceptable and prevent such expressions from gaining foot.

    That means resorting to censorship
    .

    And no, I'm not going to bother with their "ideology", because that's why GG has been getting distracted so much. Many hard-right political pundits who infiltrated GG would rather focus on the SJW "ideology" in the context of affecting them at an "all-encompassing" political level, while doing jack shit to directly prevent them from fucking with our games.

    You don't defeat an "ideology". That's waaaaaaay too tall of an order.

    You defeat their media, and drive them out of the videogames market. Those are my victory conditions. I couldn't care any less about what they do anywhere else or where else they'll take their "ideology". As long as my games are safe, that's all that matters.


    Tell me, how else are you going to tell them to "fuck off' if you don't take an authoritarian stance against their bullshit? SJWs may not learn from history, but they can certainly learn from pure suffering.

    Your pride in "intellectualism" is as meaningless as the SJWs' devotion to "justice". Despite all the "intellectualism" that we boast about, it has done abolutely nothing to prevent many of our beloved games from being sent to the chopping block.

    Despite the fact that I can't stand SJWs and sex-negative feminists, I actually respect them. I don't respect them because of their beliefs (lol hell no), but rather I respect them because of their tenacity and low tolerance for bullshit. They know what they want, and they'll stop at nothing to achieve it, even at the cost of undermining princples such as "free speech".

    On the other hand, we have continually tripped on our own toes and have done little, if nothing, to actively stop them in their tracks.

    Our beloved games keep getting censored.

    Gamers continue to be ridiculed for political purposes.

    The gaming "media" continues to undermine their audience.

    You see what's going on here? You claim that the SJWs refuse to learn from the past, yet we refuse to learn from the present.

    If these SJWs can influence our gaming market despite their "anti-intellectualism", then they are clearly doing something right, and we are clearly doing something wrong. It is because I respect SJWs for the threat that they pose that I promote censoring them in their tracks before they fuck with our games even further.

    What better way is there to remedy our situation than to learn from our enemies and use their tactics against them?


    Okay, I'll give you that one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  17. grgspunk

    grgspunk Member

    Messages:
    144

    Fascism or communism? Which one am I? Surely you don't mean to say they're the same. If I recall correctly, the fascists and communists hated each other during WWII...

    Oh well. If I'm a fascist, then you can call me "Benito". If I'm a communist, then you can call me "Joseph". I'm not going to get caught up in petty buzzwords--I'm just gonna roll with it instead.

    I'll fight for my speech and my speech alone. I won't bother protecting anyone else's if there isn't anything in it for mine. I'm not going to get caught up in worrying about anyone else's "free speech"--If I do, it'll only distract me from protecting my own. That means acting against my opposition's "free speech" if I perceive theirs to be a threat to mine.

    Free speech isn't a switch, it's a circuit breaker--Something that automatically shuts down when someone decides to fuck around and threaten to burn everything you hold dear. Once it's safe to do so, it can easily be flipped back.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  18. 3rdStrike_Ebi

    3rdStrike_Ebi Senior Member

    Messages:
    636
    Part 1:

    They didn't learn from it because they do not consider it censorship when it happens to their opponents. Back then, neither did I. They often say their free speech is being infringed upon if you disagree with them, or let someone else speak without interruption. Do you really believe it's a good idea to start censoring them for real when they believe they're already being attacked by everyone they don't like?

    Because like with violence in video games and fundamentalist Christians, if we play our cards right, the content we like becomes normal, and the other side loses credibility and their reputation.

    In other words, instead of fixing the problem, you wish to contribute towards the downward spiral into the worst-case scenario.

    It sounds to me you never really had confidence in the principle of free speech to begin with. In my case, I had to relearn it, which is why I defend it so strongly even for people I hate with the core of my being. But to throw the entire founding concept behind modern Western society out the window just because people have threatened and stomped on it? You give up too easily, offering no resistance.

    I dare you to go to a secular/not as strongly religious forum and declare that everyone who doesn't believe in the Word of God will go to hell, and see what people say to you. While it's true that a large majority of Americans are still religious, they are not only less violent than their ancestors, but they hate preachy arseholes like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. Religion is certainly an unresolved issue that needs to be tackled with facts and logic, but we've certainly come a long bloody way since the old days.

    As for Islamic countries, keep in mind that there are legitimate refugees from those places trying to escape persecution, censorship and death from their families and communities. And yes, I'm talking about self-censorship in particular. They've also tried censoring the Internet multiple times - with varying degrees of failure. The Middle East, thanks to the Islamic political revolutions that happened in the 20th century, has not been able to modernize culturally and scientifically. And part of the reason for that is the instillation of fear into the masses, forcing nonbelievers to self-censor themselves in order to stay alive.

    I actually got some of the best marks in my class for religion in the Catholic high school I went to, so I actually know quite a bit about what's wrong with it. And no, I never said Christianity got powerful because of Jesus' execution - no-one can prove it even fucking happened in the first place - I was saying it got powerful because they went underground and spread their message in secret.

    Think about it: if you censored SJWs and drive them underground, what do you think will happen? Do you think they'll disappear for good and automatically leave your games alone? No. Censoring your opponent legitimizes their argument, because other people see it and assume they must be telling the truth if people are scared of what they have to say. So if you drive them underground, guess what? You'll make the censorship worse, because they'll further infiltrate the gaming industry in secret and get even more power and control over everything, and part of that is because people will sympathize with them being victimized and having their free speech taken away from them. So your naive attempt to get what you want will end up hurting you more in the long run, as well as everyone else.

    Ironic, coming from you, as you're using persecution as a justification to resort to authoritarianism as well. The only difference between you and SJWs is they use historical persecution rather than current persecution.

    I thought you said religion was rooted in fear and repression, so I assume I won't need to point out why deifying video games is a bad idea.

    Because when Steven Universe was censored in the UK, SJWs went into a fit of rage. Yet even when that happened, they continue to advocate for the censorship of games and other forms of media they don't like. They are pigheaded, delusional and dogmatic ideologues who believe the entire world is out to get them for who they are. The vast majority of them will never break away from the cult no matter what happens to them. Because like I said before, they have internalized the idea that censorship is okay if they do it to others, and they justify it by denying it is censorship at all.

    Sure, but the difference is when I advocated for social justice games, that included suppressing the competition by shaming tactics and outrage. Today, I want otome games to exist alongside stuff like Senran Kagura. Same with SJW games; they can coexist if they wish, but we're not inclined to support them. The free market would determine their success.
     
  19. 3rdStrike_Ebi

    3rdStrike_Ebi Senior Member

    Messages:
    636
    Part 2:

    While I also don't want scenario 2, I don't agree with suppressing other marketplaces just because I don't like them. I consider that to be actual entitlement.

    Wrong. Completely wrong. If GamerGate did not happen, I would not be here right now. If I didn't read The God Delusion, I would've slipped back into Catholicism. If I did not listen to Sargon of Akkad, or Milo Yiannopoulos, or literally any GamerGate supporter, I would still be sitting on my arse sucking the virtual tit of the former friend of mine that converted me to feminism. I fundamentally reject this argument.

    Not happening. I would rather destroy everything I own with a hammer than resort to censoring my opponents.

    It became that way because the political rabbit hole was deeper than expected. GamerGate pulled the curtain to expose a much more insidious situation. And at the root of it all is the social justice ideology. If you defeat that, you win; you would be defeating the actual final boss. If that's too difficult for you, then you never had the spine to stay for the long haul.

    You think like a hermit.

    With a passion for facts, logic, and comedy. It's that simple. Nowhere does authoritarianism fit into this equation.

    No they won't. They already believe they're suffering without you actually doing anything to them. What you're advocating for is the equivalent of chopping someone's arm off because they believe it's not a part of their body.

    Not entirely true, actually. Despite how it may look, progress has been made with previously censored video games, or ones that were going to be censored. For example, the card game Eternal Destiny was given an uncensored option after community feedback from Steam users convinced them to allow you to restore the cards to their original artwork. Tom Lipschultz from XSEED took a demotion in order to keep Akiba's Trip 100% uncensored after SJWs on NeoGAF got triggered over a tranny joke. He still works there to this day, advocating for uncensored releases through the company he works for.

    As for games like Fire Emblem Fates, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Street Fighter V and Criminal Girls? The community has responded by devoting time and effort to undo the censorship themselves. Now tell me something: do you believe we would have gained the support of this many people - some of whom were neutral on GamerGate before they were shown just how bad things have gotten - if we acted exactly the same way as SJWs?

    Absolutely not. It would've been seen as idiots arguing over nothing and trying to 1-Up each other. Many neutrals do still believe this, but how many of those neutrals end up going over to the SJWs' side after they do some digging into things like GamerGate and Torrential Downpour? Almost none, from what I can tell, and that's because our arguments are objectively stronger than the SJWs'. And our arguments are stronger specifically because we don't play on their level. We play above them.

    Regardless of what you think of someone like ReviewTechUSA, did you know he was neutral on things like GamerGate and SJWs? Well, that stopped being true a long time ago. And that's because he concluded we're the ones in the right here.

    They can sacrifice commonly held principles most people agree with because they have devalued it internally to make room for the ideology they subscribed to. That's not worthy of respect, that's just pathetic.

    I do learn from the present. That's why I'm looking toward the future. The one who is stuck is you. You cling to the present for quick, easy solutions to problems you don't like for your own satisfaction, without any regard for what got you here in the first place, what allows you to believe the things you do and speak the way you do. A hypocrite of the highest order, and all you continue to think about is how this clusterfuck of a culture war can turn out to be favourable for you and you alone.

    Fundamentalist Christians used the exact same tactics that you and the SJWs advocate for several decades ago. Today, they are seen as nothing but an embarrassment, a complete fucking joke. The violent video game debate was the biggest loss they have ever suffered from even to this day. I have never seen or learnt about such a thorough and brilliant display of humiliation for Christianity ever since the Monkey Trials of 1925. At no point did the gaming community have to resort to the exact same tactics as their opponents in order to come out on top in the end. Mark my words: the same thing will happen again with SJWs.
     
  20. TheNecroswanson

    TheNecroswanson Senior Member

    Messages:
    409
    Dear @3rdStrike_Ebi , thank you.
    I have zero patience for NeoGaf fucks who think it's okay to censor games, or that free speech is just a switch that can flipped on and off.
    Like, none, at all.